Secrets of divine love interview with A.Helwa
Interview with A.Helwa the author of Secrets of Divine Love. All the book club members really enjoyed reading the book with The Thinking Muslim Bookclub, join via Goodreads.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Writer A. Helwa has over 15 years of experience writing and speaking on Islam and personal development. Over the past several years she has inspired over 400,000+ readers through her passionate, poetic, and love-based approach to Islamic spirituality. Her popular blog @quranquotesdaily, was established while attending a Masters in Divinity focused on Islamic spirituality and peacemaking, as a means of helping others overcome personal and spiritual struggles on their journey of experiencing divine love.
Listen To This Episode Below
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Podcast Notes
Farhat Amin 00:00
Assalamualaikum Helwa, and welcome to a Muslima podcast.
Helwa 00:06
Walaikum Assalam. Thank you so much for having me.
Farhat Amin 00:09
Oh Alhamdulillah, I'm so happy that you were able to make the time to come on because I really enjoyed reading the book. We've been reading it as a part of the Thinking Muslim book club and Mashallah, when we had our zoom meeting to discuss it- and even just the general comments and feedback I've had about your book- Alhamdulillah it's a really positive and optimistic book.
So for any of my listeners who haven't heard of the book- it's called, 'Secrets of divine love.' Inshallah, could you please give a summary of what the book's about?
Helwa 00:48
Yeah, that's a really good question. So in my idea, the book is about experiencing the different elements of what it is to be Muslim through the eyes of divine love.
It takes you starting with Allah and then kind of dives into who the human being is as the creator describes us to be. Then goes through the pillars, and then chapters on death and heaven and hell.
So I sort of wanted to begin with the origin which is Allah, and the end, which is returning back to Him. For a lot of people, the way they've described it is where it's kind of a journey into themselves with things they are familiar with but maybe framed in a slightly different way.
A lot of times when I share the book with people like you- who have definitely read many books on Islam, I pray that Allah shows you something new and what feels familiar.
Farhat Amin 01:52
Okay alhamdulillah. That's really true now that you've said that; there are things that I've read before- like the 5 pillars that the book covers- but it is from a very unique perspective. It's definitely different; why did you decide to write this book?
Helwa 02:23
I don't think that I decided to write it. Actually, what had happened was I started the Instagram page that I run, 'Quran Quotes daily,' and I think it was 2013. A couple of years into it, people started to ask me a lot of questions. So I started to try my best to read books and answer them, and in that process, I started amassing notes, and I didn't really know what to do with it, so I sort of put it in the corner, and my mind had me start a project where I make 365 verses of the Quran into hand-lettered typography with designers from around the world from every faith and culture. So as I was amassing about 55 designers on that project, which I was doing for about a year which was actually the book I was working on.
And in the meantime, everybody said, 'Oh, what does this verse mean that you're doing this design on?' or, 'Could you tell me more about that verse?... What's the context with this verse?'
And I thought- oh! People are kind of interested in knowing the meanings behind the verses of the Quran. So I actually started doing one-page reflections on each of the verses, and then I realised the book would be 800 pages!
Farhat Amin 03:42
Oh, that's long!
Helwa 03:45
Right, and I thought, that's going to be a problem. And I didn't want to create an encyclopedia sized book. So I started to put my notes aside, and then I was taking a few classes, and my teachers told me, 'Hey, move forward, and why don't you just keep writing about each topic?' And two and a half years later, it became a book.
I didn't have the intention actually, until I just felt guided- it almost felt like I was trying to cross a river, and once I put my foot in, the current took me a different direction, and I sort of said ok- let's see what Allah makes of this, and it actually became this book.
Farhat Amin 04:33
Did you find it hard deciding what you were going to keep and what you were going to take out? Was that quite difficult?
Helwa 04:42
Yeah, actually, when I was working with an editor- there are some popular publishing houses here like Penguin. I think they also have arms in the UK. They were saying, your book's too long, it's actually 40,000 words too long, so if you want a traditional publisher, you have to cut it to 160 pages. And it being 385, it would take a significant amount of the book away.
So I had to sit with that because I was told it would be easy to go through a traditional publishing route because of the following more than anything- which actually kind of made me sad because it just made me feel like unless you have this social media presence that your words don't matter and I feel like that's definitely not true or that your words matter more- which think is also not true as well.
So I started to look through the chapters and the chapter Tawba, and I thought if I take this out-, what does it do to the book?
It was a very telling moment for me because I was confronted with the idea of taking out the path of returning to Allah- and I knew at that moment that it didn't matter if a publisher ever looked at the book, it didn't matter if anyone actually ever read the book because the outcomes belong to Allah.
And so the only thing I can do is that if I feel right about the message, if it feels an alignment with what I know from the Quran- which is not perfect- but it's the best that I know. If it's in alignment with the words of my Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) and His family, and His righteous companions, then it doesn't matter if a publishing house takes it, and if it means a whole new path of; I don't know how to self publish, I just trust that the message will get to who its meant to be. So that's why I made the decision of keeping the book at its length, even though it's around almost 400 pages- and the shipping ends up being more expensive, and all the distributors are annoyed by the weight. But at the end of the day, I feel like that's what Allah asked of me, and it's ok if it's held back because of that.
Farhat Amin 07:19
Yeah, Helwa, I am so happy you kept the Tawba chapter in because I loved that chapter, and good for you for sticking to your guns. Because you're right you could be a slave to popularity, and the publishers have a certain model of what they think will sell, and it's good you didn't because I think that each chapter is like a puzzle that fits together. Like one chapter is a glove and a hand- it fitted so nicely, and it flowed, Alhamdulillah- it flowed really well.
I feel like the appeal of this book is that you don't have to be quote-unquote Islamic or practicing about Islam to read it. It's very accessible. Nowadays- I'm not generalising about Islamic books- but I wonder how many people who don't define themselves as practicing will pick this book up off the shelves. Have you found that?
Helwa 08:42
Actually, yes, I've gotten a good amount of messages from people who are not Muslim, who said that reading the book either confronted the way that they had been living or it kind of opened their eyes to prayer in a new way in their own faith.
So I had about 11 or 12 readers of the book before it came out. Some of them were actually followers of the page because I wanted to make sure that people understood the languaging and if it was- like you said accessible- and actually one of those readers was a Bible study major at a Christian university in California. I had asked her if she could read it and if she could let me know if she found anything offensive in the book.
that she felt, in some way, that maybe I didn't know that I said something that was hurtful because I didn't know fully her theology.
So I kind of came to her in a humble state that I don't know your religion that well, but I want to make sure. So she agreed to read it, and it was really amazing- one of the most remarkable experience of my life was reading her notes, alongside the bar of the book, and she would quote verses from the Bible or something that St. Francis said, and it would be very similar to something a companion said many years later, or Imam Ali said- it was such a beautiful experience.
So then she started for 5 weeks, praying 5 times a day, portions of the Bible that she had memorised, so she would come to Islamic prayers. She would sit there while we did prayers, and she would engage in her own prayers 5 times a day because she just found that very convincing that argument for being with God in a very consistent way. And to the judgement of her friends, 'Are you becoming Muslim?' She's at a Christian university, and she was like, 'No, but I'm really appreciating this beautiful element of their faith.'
And at that moment, I really realised that I wanted the book to be something for anyone regardless of their faith, that they could come and experience something from the well of Islam and not feel obligated for something or a particular direction because, for me, that's how I experienced Islam in a loving way. My teachers just came, and they said whether you pray or not- or do all the practices or not, why can't you just have a relationship with God first? And I love that's how the path began, you know? And so yeah, that's a long-winded response!
Farhat Amin 11:43
Yeah, when I read this, I thought this is the type of book. If someone said to me that they were interested in Islam, this is a book I would give them because- I'll be honest, there aren't many. I remember giving my daughter's teacher- her primary school teacher a book, and then she never liked me again, I don't know- I got the wrong vibe from her, I thought she was interested, but she wasn't.
But this book, you're right. I can't imagine someone getting offended by being given this book to borrow and to read. Say; look, if you got questions, here you go- why don't you have a read through this.
So Alhamdulillah, and Mashallah- you did manage, and you got the tone right and Mashallah the language! You're really poetic! Has anyone ever said that to you? Do you write poetry in your spare time?
Helwa 12:41
Actually, when people asked me, 'Oh, do you consider yourself a writer?' I almost never said yes. Poetry is like my spoken word- particularly my hearts' face, so I got something I've been doing forever. I love poetry because I find that it's like putting an idea into such a small space and having you think about it for such a long time, and I feel that this similar to some of the hadiths of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him)- it's such few words, but you could just meditate on that forever.
And I think actually, I know that the Quran isn't poetry, but I think it has that element where it's such few words, where it's like God was very selective- He never needed to put an extra word in there and so the Quran- which I think is about 5 times smaller than the Bible? It's quite a small book actually, in comparison to other books, and yet it's kind of like how they say that before the Big Bang that one theory of how the universe was created like how everything in time and space was compacted to the size of a pea- a tiny, tiny thing- and then it sort of blew out in existence, and I think of the Quran in a similar way, like how Allah said the Quran is such a small word- and yet BAM!- all of existence and so I sort of have this inclination towards these pact ideas, so it was very difficult to expand- so sometimes I would write 3 paragraphs that were all rhyming-
Farhat Amin 14:36
Oh!
Helwa 14:37
-and my friends were like, 'You can't do that! That's not standard writing!'
And so I struggled a lot with how I have to remove these rhymes- because that's just how my brain sort of thinks.
Farhat Amin 14:51
Yeah, I knew you were a poet when I was reading this because I used to be an English High school teacher, and I was thinking, 'Yeah, this is good stuff. You must have read a lot of books there's a lot of different types of people that you're quoting, how did you decide that- 'yeah I’m going to choose these people to include,' so naturally there's ayat of Quran, and hadiths of the Prophet (saw)- but how did you kind of reduce your list- because you probably had quite a long list of people you'd like to quote in the book.
Helwa 15:48
I would say that kind of similar to the book in how it came about- I don't think I really chose the people, and the reason I'm saying that is I was actually recently talking to a woman, and she was saying, you know I'm writing- 'do you have any recommendations or advice?' and I told her just keep writing and writing, and if it's bad just keep writing- and then live life, and then wait for God to fill in the spaces.
Because one of the mistakes I made in my process of writing was that I was trying to make every sentence perfect right off the bat, which threw me into a state out of humility because I was so self-managing the book, like, Oh! I want to write this line, and what about this line?- and that doesn't sound that good- and so I was stressed out in setting self-management.
And then with the help of one of my friends- she really helped me guide myself back to Allah, and was like, 'Just be with God, and let him fill in the spaces.'
The way that I would explain that is; show up, keep writing, and then live life. That's a simple way because what would happen was; I would be writing about prayer- for example, then I would be living my life, and then I would watch like a bird or an animal do something that looked like prayer to me and then it would sort of shift my perspective a little bit about what prayer could be or what it may be, and then all in that same period, I would pick up a book, and there would be someone talking about prayer in a completely different way.
An example of that is, I knew that the postures of prayer had significance, but I couldn't- in hundreds of books- I couldn't find somebody describing them, and I was really struggling. I knew that the book needed that section in the salah, but I couldn't find it, and so then I sort of just gave up the search. Then actually, a professor at MSU in Michigan gave me the book to ask theological questions from- because I didn't want there to be any mistakes in the book. He was like, "I read your prayer section, you know I feel like you need to read this one book… There's this one book that you need to read that would bring it together."
And long and behold, in that book were the sections of prayer, exactly in the way that I wanted them. And so I would say that all the little pieces and the quotes, the same way somebody would give me a book or say; I read this beautiful quote from Imam Ghazali- and I thought you would like it- and it was like, the perfect thing you know?
Farhat Amin 18:39
Yeah, I know. I think people are still reading, It's over-exaggerated that people aren't reading anymore because everyone's on their phones. I know sometimes that because we are busy, we find it hard to make time, I think it's making the time to read, but once you do that, it's so addictive- you actually can't stop. And I miss that if I don't read now, I miss it, and I think that rather than- I'm reading 'The Sword of Allah, the life of Khalid bin Walid, it's by-
Helwa 19:21
Wonderful.
Farhat Amin 19:22
Lieutenant Ai. Akram, and I'm not kidding- that it's better than any Hollywood movie.
Helwa 19:28
Wow.
Farhat Amin 19:29
-that I could be watching. It's just so… like I'm pacing myself so that I don't finish it too quickly. But each chapter and each battle- it's just so amazing, the characters and the plot. You couldn't make it up frankly- like I can't believe this really happened.
Helwa 19:47
Subhanallah.
Farhat Amin 19:48
Reading just enriches your life. So I can tell that you probably read so much to produce this book, a lot of reading was done, you know, and Alhamdulillah it shows. I haven't come across the Buddhist’s sayings- or certain, I'm trying to think…in particular- those quotes were really nice to read and think about. And yeah, Alhamdulillah- that all being kind of dotted in the book was lovely.
On the blurb at the back of the book, it says, "This book will help you overcome your negative inner critic.." and that really struck me. So what I wanted to ask you was- what did you mean by that? What is this negative inner critic that Muslims- or even anyone really- that you feel the book will help them with?
Helwa 21:01
So yeah, the inner critic. Going back to Instagram briefly, being on it for about 7 years and having people send me thousands of messages and then sometimes people would send me messages with 5 paragraphs of something they're going through, and usually, it comes down to a voice in their head making them feel a certain way, and then them responding to it in self-management, instead of taking it to Allah.
So the way that I sort of understand it is that from the beginning of time, there came the Shaytan whispering something to Adam, and then they made this decision, and it brings them down to the earth. And so ever since then, Allah is like… now you two are enemies, there is this conflict inside that shows up, and I'm not just saying just Shaytan, right? Because Shaytan spoke to the nafs in Adam, he didn't speak to the spirit. He spoke to the ego in Adam. So the access point to the human being is that ego. So then you have the Shaytan and the ego, I believe, as these voices.
And when I say this sometimes, people kind of go, 'I'm not schizophrenic!' That not what I mean, not in a mentally ill way- I mean that it's this very perceptible if you sort of listen and voiced it for most people who say things like, 'you're not good enough' and 'you'll never do that' or 'you're always going to be this person who misses fajr' or 'you're always going to be this person who struggles with doing halal or haram things' like; you are always going to be this person. There are these voices that sort of attack us, or not really take them as these enemies because we just think it's us. So one of the amazing, wonderful teachings that my teachers have given me is this idea to sort of distinguish between the voices of the Shaytan and then the voices of the ego. And then to be able to take that voice and turn it back to Allah.
So one of the things that I have always been told is "don't fight the darkness Helwa, turn on the light." which means don't struggle, don't make your first option struggling, make your first option going to Allah, and then strive, always in that pattern.
And so that critiquing voice, I felt that as we sort of understand how loving Allah is, as we sort of sit in His mercy and His compassion, in His kindness, then we might be inclined to turn to Him with anything we're going through and then that sort of forces the voice to dissolve, because as they say, 'when the light comes, there's no room for darkness.'
Farhat Amin 24:08
Yeah. And then she's speaking of ego- you've purposely chosen not to publicise yourself to publicise your book, and that's quite interesting because normally that's what authors do- and I'm not criticising for doing this, but that seems to be the method, but you've chosen to take a step back and not do that- why have you chosen to do that?
Helwa 24:37
Sure yeah, that's definitely a question I get. For me, from the very beginning on Instagram, I wanted to be anonymous. I sort of felt that there was this inclination of people wanting to know the person more than the message, and I felt like the name I chose was 'Quran quotes daily'; it had nothing of me in it.
The real turning point for me was when the feature on Instagram came for going Live, and that was really the first time people ended up hearing my voice or anybody else's voice. It was very interesting to see how people suddenly wanted to know everything about me because they heard my voice and maybe they felt inclined, or they realised I wasn't a man because the 99% assumption is that I'm a brother. So I always get, 'Assalamualaikum brother!' like the assumption is that it's not a woman running the page- which is fine, I understand.
There's sexism in the culture and etcetera, but to hear my voice which has been told as a neutral sounding voice, then people started saying, 'Show me your face!' or, 'Where are you from?'. They wanted to know all the details of my life, which I felt would take away from the message that I was trying to put forth that I felt guided to put forth. And so I feel and have told myself this before; as long as being anonymous puts the attention on the message, then Allah, the Quran, the teachings- that's where I'm going to be, but the moment the 'being anonymous' prevents the message from going forward- I don't know what scenario that would be. Then I would come out of my cave and be as I am to keep the message going forward- but that's sort of how I conceptualized it, I guess.
Helwa 26:39
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I understand what you were saying about the voices we hear, and I think we sometimes -when we really listen carefully- it's literally like, Shaytan is whispering to you because you think, 'I wasn't even thinking that, where did that idea come from?'. And I think that that's even more cemented is in the kind of consumer culture that we're all, Muslim, non-Muslim- people of all faiths- where it's like we are being engulfed by this consumer culture where that it's diverting our attention that whenever we do have a problem, it's telling us that what you need to do is either consume good or consume entertainment. And that's how you know if you're feeling sad or you've got a problem- that will help you or that will make you feel better.
And the thing is that I think for many of us- and it's very hard to drown out that noise because until you know, it's encouraging us to be materialistic. And the thing is that- Alhamdulillah, your book is saying the opposite like you just said; it’s saying to turn to Allah, turn to the sacred texts to gain a solution, gain fulfillment. And so did you have to go through that journey yourself to realise that? Or was that through- like you mentioned teachers that you had? How did you come to that realisation?
Helwa 28:26
Yeah, that's a wonderful question. I would say for me, I realised that- you know, growing up in California, I went to private schools my whole life.
I definitely would say I grew up in a very abundant, blessed situation. And then to see that that didn't give me the contentment I seek? Was actually a wonderful blessing because it just showed me that everything that people are fighting for, everything the people are reaching for-, it's not going to give them the contentment they think it will.
So from a very young age, I sort of saw people who were, you know Beverly Hills isn't too far from here, but also Skid Row- which is one of the poorest places in the United States is also not far; they're 8 miles away from each other which is incredible to see this abundance and this sort of poverty right next to each other and then to see the people in both spaces are struggling, and that is had nothing to do with money.
And so seeing that sort of showed me that consumerism isn't going to fill the empty space inside of -they say 'god shaped' hole- obviously god is not physical but this idea that we're empty, and we're either going to be filled with something that is going to serve us- Allah- or something that's going to decay over time inside of us. And so I think it's really interesting because you know whenever you get a wound, and you go to the doctor and when they deal with your wound. They're wearing gloves and very specific with what they put on because it's open. They are like, 'we can't get it infected.' but we're walking around- empty- filing ourselves with everything without any sort of consideration to what those words are going to do to the heart or what that visual's going to do to the spirit. We don't see a direct effect, so we're like, 'Oh, must not be bad then.' There's this idea that 'Oh, God didn't punish me, so I must be fine.'
We're waiting for this direct reciprocation, and I have seen that in so many messages from people. That they are basically asking me if they can do that thing that they know they can't. Because they're hoping that I will give them permission as if I have that power- right? They sort of say, 'Hey! You're very loving and compassionate, so can I do this thing that I know I can't?'
And I always think it's funny because it's kind of like, 'Oh, my parents are bad cop- can you be good cop?' And I understand that I've been young- I grew up my entire life in America, I kind of understand that inclination to be filled with that instant gratification. But I also see that over time it creates this arthritis that slowly creeps up on you in the heart. So for me a lot of my teachers really, really…like some of them ------ we would do, and some teachers you would go and stay with them and they'd say, 'Ok so you're going to do 75,000 'this' name of Allah,' or 'I want you to do 10,000 'La illaha ilallah's' by tomorrow, and you are like, 'Oh my-.'
So then you're sitting here, and the point is to confront your ego, confront your preference to not be doing that or, 'oh, I'm over it now, so I want to stop,' -no, you have to keep going. And what it does is sort of turns you from the world to this inner realm, and there's nothing like it, but you know it's interesting- the last thing I'll say about this is when you look at the Prophets (Peace Be Upon Them), it's funny that they always went up to a mountain to get a revelation.
I went to Mount Sinai -it was like a 3-hour walk, I was like, 'Man! Moses went up this mountain! This is a lot of work, you know? Couldn't the revelation just come at the base of the mountain? But no- they had to walk up, and then they didn't stay there, but they went up, and then they received, and then they came down. It's like this striving, this killing of the soil to get ready of the seeds of revelation all for Allah. It's striving for that. I don't know if that really answered your question?
Farhat Amin 33:10
Yeah, when we were having the discussion actually- the discussion that people were saying books emphasise, you can look at the title of your book and think- this book is just going to be lovey-dovey, wishy-washy, hearts and butterflies, and talk about Allah- but no- it tells you you need to obey Allah as well, they go together. And I really liked that.
I don't think anyone can read this book and get the wrong end of the stick because you're clearly saying that if you love Allah, you obey Allah.
That's actually a sign of when we do love Allah- we want to obey Allah and want to obey His messenger, and the two have to go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. It's a silly example- but if you love someone, like how your husband says he loves you, he gives you roses, he does things, you make him a nice meal that he likes but the one you want to eat. You do things, that's it, that's the way it is.
Helwa 34:20
Sure.
Farhat Amin 34:21
Another thing that I really liked about the book was that you know for all of us- I think I had this when I was a teenager that- I can never say that word- I'm going to just say you have a bit of a crisis of faith or this question you ask yourself; does Allah really exist, or even does God really exist? Where do I come from? What's the purpose of my life?
And I think, if a person hasn't asked those questions- I think everyone should ask those questions. Even if we were born into a Muslim family- asking those questions and then actively seeking the answers is so important to just having yaqeen, being sure that what I'm doing is correct.
What's nice is that in your book, you do address those questions and give the answers, and how long did it take you to find the answers to those questions? You've written it- Mashallah- very succinctly, and you didn't waffle- which was really good. A person could read and say, 'ok, I get it.' You probably asked yourself those questions as well?
Helwa 35:48
Yeah definitely. I definitely sort of began with those questions. And those were the questions especially growing up that I constantly had, and -I was born Muslim. My parents really modelled what being good Muslims looked like or what it looks like. I am forever grateful for that because I can't even imagine being in another family because Allah really blessed me. A lot of their teachings found their way into the book. And I told my Mum- I said when this book came out-, this is a direct outcome of your prayers for me, and every time I think about that, I'm on the brink of tears because I know that it's her prayers that saved me, and that's just what I believe.
Maybe somebody else can say that that's not true or etcetera or whatever, but that's what feels very true to me and growing up in the cultures that we grew up in, Islam was shared in a very… 'these are the things you do, and if you don't do them there's going to be problems for you'- as extremists you are going to hell if you don't pray and so seeing that sort of freaked me out. Especially like I said- I went to all American schools, I didn't go to Islamic schools, I didn't go to 1 MSU in college just so you have an idea-
Farhat Amin 37:12
Oh- ok!
Helwa 37:14
-How interested I was in Islam. I didn't even know what it stood for until later in life, you know? I never went. And so even though my parents had instilled these ideas, I had found myself not praying for about 10 years, and in that space of not praying and feeling like shame, around these obligations and etcetera that's when I had a crisis of spirit and that was sort of where the journey began.
And I sort of talk about an intervention, but the background is these ideas all though I felt so much love in my life when it came to religion, I was taught religion how my parents' parents had taught them and how their parents' parents' taught them- which was just to obey. They just hear obey, and there was no 'and' in that. We hear, and we obey- and I felt like I just needed that 'and,' that space of contemplation, I felt that I needed to sit with the ideas. And so it wasn't really until my teachers came and they were like, before all of that, how do you feel? And I had never been asked that question when it came to faith… how do you feel?
Like when someone says, 'you know Helwa, I struggle praying fajr or all of my prayers…' My response is not let me tell you why you need to pray, and the number 1 identification of those in hell are those who don't pray- I don't bring up those hadiths that are going to shame them out of it. I ask them how they're doing and what's going on and what they're looking for and then return through love.
And I think those questions about God's existence didn't really be able to find or experience an answer until I felt like Allah loved me and that He loved me so much before I even had the ability to speak to pray, and I want to taste that love, and so I show up to pray to experience that love, the way I explain it is like… if the lid is on a bucket, no matter how much it rains, the bucket won't collect water; you have to take your lid off.
And I think a lot of times as Muslims, like 'Hey, it's raining! Now go outside!' the person has a lid on, so until we can address the lid, there's no reason to preach endlessly about it raining, you know? So I think the lid comes off through love. And so that's just the beginning, some people when they hear that idea, they're like… 'No! But you need fear to make people obey!', and my thing is always, hope never derails anyone.
In fact, you know, iblis- there's a root that comes from hopelessness, so if we push someone into hopelessness, what happens? They're not with Allah, and so I think these questions about God's existence- like these questions we have that constantly come and go, I think the only way we can address them when someone asks is first to sit with, who do they think Allah is?
Farhat Amin 40:33
Yes.
Helwa 40:34
What are their impressions of God? Because a lot of times, there are 7 billion gods in a way because people have their own impression, and so I think it's returning that to the Quran and Sunnah, the sayings of ahlulbayt, the companions, take it back to what is it that Islam is saying? Because of the times we deter or fall into the prey of our critic voices, the Shaytan, the ego.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that it begins with love for me, and I think that the intellect has such a strong part to play, and I often think about the story of Noah. When he got on the ark, and he asks the sun to come, and the sun says, 'no, I'm going to go to the top of the mountain,' and Noah replies with something along the lines of, 'the mountain top is not going to save you today.'- meaning your intellect which is ok- I'm going to the top of the mountain- makes sense right? When has a flood overtaken a summit?
It's like the intellect today in the presence of the divine, as amazing as it is to get you here- it won't survive- it's not what will save you, So it's this weird dance between intellect and heart. Between feeling and thinking that between the mind and the heart that are placed together in any of these questions, I find it most impactful.
Farhat Amin 42:17
Yeah, I think it's interesting that society puts so much emphasis on just looking to science for these answers- they can explain the details, like all the stages of pregnancy and the unborn child, but why? Why were we created? They can never give us that answer.
There's that and like you said if we don't holistically take knowledge for our knowledge of Islam, so from reading the hadith, reading the Quran, reading the example of the Sahabah- when we do that then we'll get a good, well-rounded understanding of Islam, and then when people ask us these questions we can give them a better answer, only recently having attending Islamic classes. You really know how little you know. And then I'm really careful when answering things- sometimes I'll just say I don't know- I can't answer that question because I've realised how little I know.
The importance of us gaining knowledge, only when you start doing it do you realise how important it is, and how helpful it is as well- it changes you.
Helwa 43:52
I also think something to add to that would be that some questions people ask, but they're not necessarily ready to receive. Me being a non-stop question-asker- the best teachers that I've had put me back with myself to take it to Allah- even if they have the answer. So I also think that it's so hard, especially if you feel that maybe you have a version of an answer- but in my experience, I remember one time I was with a friend and the book had not come out yet, but she was one of the readers- so she kind of knew what I was writing. So I was sitting, and somebody was saying some wild things about Islam, and I was sort of silently sitting, and she kept hitting me like, 'Helwa say something! Say something!' And I don't know- I didn't feel this guidance, and it was a very conflicting moment for me at the time because I thought I should stand up for my faith! When I sat there, I thought Allah didn't need me to stand up for His faith or His way, and so I was thinking to myself and reflecting, what was the struggle, you know?
And later, I kind of came to this conclusion that words are really sacred- especially spoken words, they're very sacred, breathe is very sacred. Like when Allah says I put my breath; there's something sacred about that. So we have to choose even how we speak to just anybody when we give our breath to them, we have to know, we have to be thoughtful when those words come out, and also who's receiving them?
And I realised later that that person, for lack of a better word, didn't deserve my breath. If it's concrete, you don't water it. I pray for them. I'm not saying that we should sit and start judging; 'this person deserves...this person doesn't...' but at that moment, I felt guided.
And so I trust that even when my mind was struggling with that, I didn't want to not speak. So I think that's an important thing to say, too, knowing when to just be silent and pray because sometimes words don't necessarily help the situation.
Farhat Amin 46:24
Yeah, that's very good advice. So Inshallah, this book has only been out since February 2020, and Inshallah, what are your plans? I know through the Instagram page people can find out about the book that way. Are you planning on doing anything else with the book? To my mind, I had thought of a course- some kind of online course. I can imagine people would be interested in that, but what are your thoughts?
Helwa 47:01
Yeah, so I thought about something like a course; I've just been sitting with how to serve people as if reading it more than anything- I've really been thinking about that. Basically, with all these book clubs going around, I've been trying to jump on the zooms just to learn from people- like how they're experiencing the material, or what ideas they have, or what do they feel
they need more of and just being grateful that they felt like this is a topic they would want to read about, and to know that this is for Allah.
My Mum was reading the book the other day, and she was like, 'I don't even recognise some passages are you,' and I was really grateful for that, I was thinking your right! It's not me! That's where the credit belongs!' -to Allah. Because a lot of times people put this credit on me, it's not like I sat, and I thought all of this up.
So I think a course would be nice if I could find a way or if I feel guided in a way that would be very supportive to people. That's one idea. But really, right now, my focus is getting the book in the hands of everybody who wants it. What I mean by that is, for example, Indonesia doesn't have access at all to the book in physical form, and I worked in Indonesia, I have a very strong connection to that country, I just love it- it's one of my favourite countries. It's huge- a place of lots of people, and they've been asking, but I've really been struggling to get the book to them.
It recently got published in Pakistan- have a printer in India, but it was really hard because when I would ask mentors or bookstore owners, 'oh those countries are the worst,' -and they didn't mean the country or the people- they just meant the system of printing is really hard because you make no money pretty much- you make so little off that industry I guess because of the currency difference.
You know books in Pakistan are selling for $5 because they're cheaper to print, and also, people can't afford to pay $15-$16. The price is like that in America and Europe because it costs so much more to print it here. I remember thinking I don't care- like I really don't care, even if someone was like, 'Oh, you could have 10,000 books in this country and guess what? you don't get paid.' I'd say great! Because I really want that message to get to them, but I've struggled to find those kinds of options.
I'm not really negotiating on any contracts with those countries because it doesn't matter to me- I just want it there. So that's my first goal, and obviously, because of COVID-19, it becomes really hard because people aren't shipping, and even the countries that have it don't get the book, so it's been an interesting struggle, but I know that my focus has been that. My second focus is to do an audiobook.
Farhat Amin 50:13
Oh yes. Yes, yes, of course.
Helwa 50:16
And more than anything, I've had people message me and say, 'my sister has MS- she can't read your book, but she wants to, so I read it to her out loud,' or 'my father is blind.' I've had these messages, and I think, man, I really need to get into the studio, and again there are people saying that's not worth the money, do you know how much you're going to spend?
For me, I don't really care! If I find an option to get it to somebody, then that's like I'm in, and I think one of the things I want to say about that is when I visited a prison and was sitting with the Muslim brothers, I knew I wanted to get the book to them, I knew instantly- 5,000 copies, but how can I do that? So that's on my mind too, these are to me worthwhile and endeavors, and the book is selling like crazy- but its really positive, so I think great I'm closer to my goal while I keep doing this other thing, you know? This isn't like my life, so I just want it, for lack of a better word, so it can be accessible- like you said from the beginning.
Farhat Amin 51:38
Yeah alhamdulillah. Well, inshallah, I'll be doing dua and all the listeners- could you please make dua that Helwa achieves those goals that she's got. It's so interesting to hear that those goals are not like those publishers' rubbish goals- about how they're not going to make any money.
But Mashallah they're excellent goals from an Islamic perspective.
Well, Helwa- seriously, I could speak to you all day- but I know you've got a life! You got things to do. Jazakallah Khair sincerely for taking time and
again I just want to thank you for writing the book. May Allah accept your efforts and reward you abundantly, Inshallah.
Helwa 52:28
I wanted to take a moment, if you don't mind, just to do a prayer?
Farhat Amin 52:32
Of course.
Helwa 52:32
I just wanted to say thank you so much to you and your podcast for having me on. I know you are very busy with your life, and I'm just really grateful- I'm really looking forward to the book you guys are working on, and the topics are incredible like I was intimidated by them. I think it's going to be wonderful.